Watch enthusiast Kurono Peace conducts an in-depth interview with Anthony de Haas of A. Lange & Söhne!

Kurono Peace is a watch enthusiast who owns over 700 watches. He interviewed Anthony de Hass, product development director at A. Lange & Söhne, a watch he himself loves. This voluminous information reveals the brand's sales policy, its approach to product development, and the personal "face" of Anthony de Hass.

An interview with Anthony de Haas, Director of Product Development at A. Lange & Söhne

　This time, I was invited to Dresden, Germany, where I had the opportunity to tour A. Lange & Söhne's headquarters and workshop, and even had the chance to interview Anthony de Haas, Product Development Director.

　The originally scheduled 30 minutes quickly went over and turned into an hour, and the conversation went off on a tangent about rock music, but the interview not only revealed some personal secrets about Mr. de Haas, but also provided a glimpse into what goes on behind the scenes at A. Lange & Söhne.

　It's a fascinating and informative record like no other before, so I was looking for a publication that would be willing to publish the full text, and webChronos gave me that opportunity. There are some forbidden fruit dangling here and there, so don't miss out and enjoy it.

What A. Lange & Söhne model is best for beginners?

Black Peace:Today, I've compiled a list of questions I have received from myself, my fellow Lange enthusiasts, and my followers on social media. Here's the first question: Which Lange entry model do you think is the best for beginners?

Anthony de Haas:Well, the answer to the question of "what would be my first Lange watch?" is very simple. A beginner should go into a store or boutique, look at all the watches, and choose the one that satisfies them. It could be a Tourbograph, a Lange, or a Saxonia Thin. I think it's a very emotional experience. I want them to go into a boutique, put one of these watches on their wrist, and say, "Wow, this is gorgeous!"

Of course, if there are multiple watches, it's difficult to choose. However, tastes vary from person to person, so I won't choose (the best model for beginners). Some people will say, "The Saxonia Thin is understated, understated, and has two hands, so I like it," while others will say, "The Saxonia Thin is a bit..." There are also people who say that A. Lange & Söhne is not a watch with hands, but a "Zeitwerk." I think the most important thing is to feel happy and comfortable.

Black Peace:However, there are many people who cannot decide on their own and seek advice at the boutique, especially since I think that more than half of them are seeing the collection all together for the first time.

Anthony de Haas:I see. For example, if I heard about A. Lange & Söhne and realized it was a German brand, not a Swiss one, I would choose the Lange 1. If you wanted a high-end watch from the start, I'd go for the Zeitwerk or the Datograph. Some people don't mind the price, and if you like really great and unique models, you'd probably go for the Zeitwerk. I think A. Lange & Söhne models are blessed with a very unique look. The Lange 1 also has a unique face.

The Zeitwerk is distinctive. I think the Odysseus also has a unique face, and the Richard Lange models with dial designs based on a triangle, such as the Richard Lange Jumping Seconds, also have unique faces. The Lange collection is filled with familiar faces. However, the first priority is "emotional."

Black Peace:I agree with that point, because choosing a watch is instinctive.

Anthony de Haas:Of course, some people get lost and confused when it comes to buying a watch. Yes, choosing a watch can be difficult. For watch collectors, an A. Lange & Söhne boutique is like a toy store or chocolate shop you might have visited as a child.

A reference to the brand's 30th anniversary model

Black Peace:Next, I'd like to ask about the brand's 30th anniversary in 2024. What kind of model is planned for the 30th anniversary? Will it be a very limited edition anniversary model? Or will it be a model that is produced in small quantities, even if not mass-produced, with hundreds of units produced at once?

Anthony de Haas:I can tell you this much. You know that the Datograph already has a 25th anniversary model, right? It's an extremely limited edition and very expensive. So the XXX (censored) model coming out for the 30th anniversary will be even more affordable at a XXX (censored) price.

Black Peace:I see! So, will there be any special events in Japan to commemorate the 30th anniversary?

Anthony de Haas:That's the job of the marketing team in Japan. They're thinking of something. Naturally, the event will be held in various places around the world. We'll be doing "something" on (censored) month and (censored) day. However, what the marketing team is planning on that day is a secret. I hope they'll do something in Japan too. Because I love Japan.

Black Peace:I would definitely like to ask for your help.

Sales of "Odysseus" and annual production volume

Black Peace:Now, the next question is not from me, but from my followers: Are there any plans to tighten or loosen the conditions for customers to get Odysseus?

Anthony de Haas:No. I think it's working fine the way it is, and we're happy with it the way it is now, because people who own Odysseus are very happy with it. That's why it's rarely available on the secondary market. It's a worthwhile investment. So, the answer (to the question about changing the terms) is no. There are two reasons why the terms are strict. One, we still get 2000 requests a month (for Odysseus). The other, we want to know who our cute babies and puppies are going to. But disasters happen, and we want to avoid them as much as possible.

Black Peace:I heard that the COVID-19 pandemic forced a 30% reduction in production. Has production volume recovered yet? Or will annual production increase to over 5000 bottles from now on?

Anthony de Haas:We only had one year of lockdown in 2020. Due to COVID-19, security regulations were imposed everywhere, so I think we were only able to make 3200 watches in that year. We were also forced into a complete lockdown for six weeks before we were finally allowed to resume production. However, we were forced to follow a work schedule called "week A and week B" (alternating shifts every other week). During week A, half of the company's staff worked in the workshop. Meanwhile, during week B, the A-week team was off because watchmakers could not work from home. However, thanks to this work schedule, we were able to isolate our watchmakers to avoid contracting COVID-19.

And, of course, with COVID-19, our production capacity has been reduced by roughly 50%. Other than that, we haven't cut production. As I mentioned at lunch, some years we made 5500, and some years we made 5200. Last year, I think it was 5,000 (censored). This year, we're making more complications, so I think the production numbers will be lower. We're making a lot of tourbillons and repeaters. We're still making Richard Lange repeaters.

On top of that, we have new models, so the models we make are more complex. And they take longer to make. That's why we're producing fewer watches this year. And to go back to your question, we don't have any plans to increase production. At least in terms of numbers. We don't have a strategy to produce 7000 watches in two years and 10,000 in five years, and that's not even possible. Also, and this is important, we belong to the Richemont Group. There are a lot of rumors about that. People often ask us if Richemont is telling us to make more money, but that's absolutely not true. In fact, it's the opposite.

Black Peace:Everyone loves those kinds of rumors.

Anthony de Haas:That's because our chairman, Johann Rupert, is a big fan of ours and has a strong interest in us. He tells us to keep doing what we've always done. So we won't compromise on quality. And we're not being forced to do this. The same goes for our boutique strategy in recent years. They supported our shift from wholesale to a directly managed boutique strategy. They let us do what we want.

Of course, they are the owners, so they want to know what's going on, but they're not forcing us to make more watches. That's not possible. At least not at A. Lange & Söhne. I don't know about the other watch brands in the group, but I don't think there's a policy like that.

A. Lange & Söhne quality control

Black Peace:This is exactly what I wanted to ask, so my next question is perfectly timed. Many people want to know about the relationship between the Richemont Group and A. Lange & Söhne. As collectors, we are genuinely curious about this. For example, Panerai, which is also part of the Richemont Group, is trying to lower production costs by reducing the cost of some of its movements. However, there are no signs of this happening with A. Lange & Söhne watches. How exactly do they maintain quality? As you mentioned just before, there is no pressure from the group, right? Is this something that is a little different from other brands under the group?

Anthony de Haas:That's right. By the way, you went on a tour of the A. Lange & Söhne workshop today, right? What did you think (about quality control)? Did you sense any passion in the people there?

Black Peace:Yes, of course. I could feel the passion and pride.

Anthony de Haas:A. Lange & Söhne's watchmakers design a watch, and they develop a movement for three years in pursuit of perfection. But that's a long time, even for the brand. So we have to reassure them, "No, no, it's okay." It's a constant challenge. It's hard to remain objective when you're looking for visual quality, like, "Is it polished to perfection?" That's my job, because I can be more objective than they can.

Look at our watchmakers. They don't see their work here as just a 9 to 5 job. They're true artisans. That wasn't the case in my previous jobs. I used to work for a major company called IWC, and when I first came here, I thought, "Wow, this place is crazy!" And A. Lange & Söhne is a small company. When I arrived, there were 400 people working here. Now there are 680. But the essence hasn't changed. And that spirit remains the same. We work hard to maintain this dignity. That's who we are. I believe the reason our movements and watches are so highly regarded is because our employees are always adding that little bit extra. And that is something very precious.

New Product Development

Black Peace:At A. Lange & Söhne, you have been trying to evolve movements and watches by adding new functions to existing base movements, right? However, there is a limit to how much new can be achieved by simply adding functions in the limited space available in a watch. So what is your next strategy to bring something revolutionary and new to the value of watches?

Anthony de Haas:It's my job to develop them. I always have to find a balance between crazy ideas and methods and business. I've already mentioned the crazy stuff, like the Zeitwerk, sales, production numbers, and quality control. Of course, as a company, we need to make money. Here's the Lange 1 Moon Phase in white gold with a black dial. Maybe one day, we'll release a different color. That's the business side of things. Of course, A. Lange & Söhne has to pay salaries. Within the typical Lange 1 design, we're always thinking, "Oh, what other models, mechanisms, etc. can we integrate into this series?" But we're staying true to the Lange 1 aesthetic. Creating new pieces while keeping the dial aesthetic, like the Lange 1 Time Zone and the automatic models, has paid off both in terms of the crazy side and the business side. We're always coming up with something new, but we keep asking ourselves, "Does it make sense?" and "Does it fit into the product family?" We always respect the Lange 1 aesthetic.

"New things" are always a combination of things. We looked at all our product lines and even looked at conversations on watch enthusiast forums to see what we could do. When we launched the Zeitwerk, we saw some creative enthusiasts creating images in Photoshop to predict what the new model would be. For example, they added a moon phase or a seconds hand to the Zeitwerk, but that's never going to happen.

Black Peace:why?

Anthony de Haas:Because a classic moon phase cannot physically fit inside a Zeitwerk. If we were to create a "Zeitwerk Moon Phase", we would have to find a completely different solution.

If we were to use a new mechanism, the Zeitwerk would be a better fit. In fact, the "Striking Time" was one of them. Striking Time chimes every 15 minutes and then chimes every hour. Old Seiko, Citizen, and 1980s digital LCD watches all beeped every hour. This kind of mechanism still exists, right? A cheap Casio watch for about $25. It beeped every hour, and you could turn it off. This feature was the basis for the idea. However, Striking Time is a feature that can only be enjoyed with the Zeitwerk, and cannot be found in other models. It's not possible to include this mechanism in a Lange 1 or Richard Lange. However, there are many possibilities for new ideas. We have released Richard Lange minute repeater models in the past. We released the "Richard Lange Minute Repeater" and the "Zeitwerk Minute Repeater." These two models are technically very different from each other: the former is a classic, but A. Lange & Söhne is still a novice in the world of minute repeaters.

Compared to Patek Philippe, which has been producing watches since the 1880s, we are still relatively new. Here in Glashütte, Germany, there was no culture of making repeating movements. Old pocket watches had repeaters, but the movements at the time came from Switzerland. There was absolutely no knowledge of repeating movements in Germany. Interesting, isn't it? I made grande sonnerie minute repeaters at Renaud & Papi (now Audemars Piguet Le Locle), so it was my dream to combine this know-how with A. Lange & Söhne. We started from scratch. The Grande Complication, released in 2013, features a grande sonnerie, minute repeater, and petite sonnerie. We learned everything ourselves, from how to make gongs to how to do it. By not only developing watches but also improving skills across the company, I believe the company will survive even if I retire or disappear. A. Lange & Söhne is a long-term company. Oops, that was a long answer to a relatively short question.

Black Peace:No, it's not a problem. That's the best thing about it (laughs).

From drummer to watchmaker and product development director

Black Peace:We'd like to dig up a few more secrets: What did you learn during your career at Seiko and Renaud & Papi that has been most useful in directing product development at A. Land & Söhne over the past 20 years?

Anthony de Haas:I believe that people go through different stages in life. As a child, I was at a completely different stage than I am now. I wanted to be a drummer. I'd been playing drums since I was 10 years old, and I wanted to be the most famous drummer in the world. My father encouraged me to become a drummer, because I had both talent and passion for the instrument. However, he also considered my career prospects and encouraged me to work as a drummer if it didn't work out. There were no schools that taught how to make drum kits, so I ended up going to school to learn how to make drum kits.

There was a watchmaking school next door, and I attended an open campus event. There, I was fascinated by the small machines. I thought, "This is amazing," and "This is cool."

After graduating from watchmaking school, I worked at a Japanese Seiko import agency in Rotterdam, the Netherlands. However, I only worked at the store three days a week. I was a studio musician and played drums in a band. However, at one point, I was faced with another life stage choice. What should I do? Drums or watches?

After this struggle, I decided to pursue a career in watchmaking. But there was no industry in the Netherlands. There was no Groeneveld or anything like that at the time. I liked IWC. My wife and I had just started dating at the time, and she was still my girlfriend. We loved Switzerland. So I called IWC and asked, "Are you looking for a watchmaker?" They replied, "Yes, please send me your resume." But wait a sec. I was on vacation in Switzerland skiing. Maybe I could make an appointment and meet them. So I went to visit IWC.

They asked me to take a test, and they asked me to start working for them straight away. A few months later, I moved to Switzerland. I initially thought I'd work for IWC for two or three years, then I'd go back to the Netherlands and maybe set up an after-sales repair service for IWC there. But then, two years later -- actually, two and a half years later -- I got a call from Steven.

"Why don't you join Renault & Papi?"

My wife and I met face to face. I then joined Renaud & Papi. I worked as a watchmaker there, creating prototypes for the Grande Sonnerie and the minute repeater. I was soon asked to become a manager, a project management position. They recognised my excellent communication skills and my ability to speak many languages. I learned French quickly. Robert Greubel was the commercial director at the time. When he left, Renaud & Papi appointed me to the position.

But I'm a watchmaker, so they gave me the opportunity to study marketing and sales at night school, one day a week, which I did for three years in Neuchâtel, Switzerland, and then I became head of the commercial department, and my job was to negotiate development contracts with all the client brands.

Then, 20 years ago, I was approached by A. Lange & Söhne to become their Director of Product Development. I thought, "What? Me? At that brand?"

My wife is a very down-to-earth person, so she encouraged me, saying, 'Why don't you try for a couple of years? It's better to regret what you did than to regret what you didn't do.' So I made the switch. But I learned a lot at Renaud & Papi. It's a really cool place to work. Giulio Papi is the kindest man in the world. They always give you opportunities. A lot of the successful independent brands were my age at Renaud & Papi. There was no jealousy or anything like that. We always helped each other. It was a really cool relationship. For me, it was a great learning experience, not just in watchmaking but also in management. That's why I'm still one of the few watchmakers who can make a grand sonnerie. I think there are only 20 to 25 watchmakers in the industry who can make a grand sonnerie.

Strengths in marketing and watchmaking knowledge

Sonneries are very complicated. They're much more complicated than a simple minute repeater. And I learned not only the technical side of watchmaking, but also the commercial side of it. Of course, I still use both.

With this background, I also have technical knowledge. I don't have to ask the watchmakers to tell me what to do. I can say that what I've learned has been very useful. Also, we have great people at A. Lange & Söhne. So as a manager, I need to trust my subordinates. I'm not just talking nonsense with them; I know what I'm talking about. So, discussions with the watchmakers are on the same level. Another advantage I have is that I understand the commercial side. So when I develop a watch, I can think, "Oh, what else can I do?" or "I'm going to make something crazy."

Most ideas start with "no one has done this yet" or "I wish something like this existed." However, even when you think "this is amazing!", sometimes you reach a technical limit. Here's a story about development and ideas. In Europe, such as Germany, there is daylight saving time, and on the last Sunday in March, the hour hand moves from 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock. I hated daylight saving time.

Black Peace:I used to hate daylight saving time when I lived in the US. It would make me late (lol). It was such a pain to have to adjust the time twice a year... Ah, the ultimate solution I came up with at the time was to adjust the time in my head by one hour for six months of the year (lol). That way I no longer have to touch it for the rest of the year (lol).

Anthony de Haas:Yes. You have to set the hands back again at the end of October. It would be so cool if the watch could automatically correct the time. Smartphones do it automatically, but what about a mechanical watch? First, it needs to have a perpetual calendar. The watch itself needs to know when it's the end of March or October. But the time change isn't determined by the date, but by the day of the week, which in Europe is the last Sunday. So, you might think, "Well, we can just make an indicator to show the day of the week." Yes, we could do that. But in the US, the timing is two weeks earlier or later. Some people might say, "Well, we can just make a button that lets you change the time at will," but that's not the case. Making a complicated watch is one thing, but making it adjustable for the wearer is another. And we knew that many people have trouble adjusting their time zones.

So we considered various options. Because at the time, we already had perpetual calendars with day displays. At that time, we already had a perpetual calendar model that cost 12 euros. It looked exactly like a perpetual calendar. By the way, do you know why Lange perpetual calendars are so expensive? Of course, salespeople in boutiques need to be able to explain to customers, "This watch can do this," but they sometimes try to justify the price with just that superficial information. However, in my department, we have a golden rule: "Avoid justifications." Because it's clear that our watches have something special beyond just their functionality. For example, even adjusting the precision of these very expensive watches is a difficult task.

This is just one example. We need to have a bird's-eye view of what's happening in the watch market, from the average consumer to collectors, but a deep group of watchmakers like A. Lange & Söhne can't do that alone. Every product has a price.

That was the most exciting part about making the Zeitwerk. It was a dream come true. You're going to see the five-minute clock at the Semper Opera House, right? It's amazing, isn't it? To be able to put a mechanism like that on your wrist and swing it around. It's not as comfortable as the Up/Down or the Paul Weber, but it's big. But nobody had ever made it before. And the fact that nobody could make it explains why.

Black Peace:So my question is, were there any options other than the remontoire to realize the Zeitwerk mechanism?

Anthony de Haas:Was it to realize a digital display? Yes, of course we discussed it. We discussed other options, but I'm happy that we chose nothing other than the remontoire. For example, there's what Jaeger-LeCoultre calls the "Duomètre" mechanism. It has two gear trains, but what I personally don't like is the differential gear between them. For the purpose of realizing the digital display of the Zeitwerk, that mechanism was completely inefficient, so we didn't consider using it. By the way, do you know where we got the idea for the remontoire? There is a clock with a very long pendulum in the A. Lange & Söhne headquarters. The remontoire mechanism is installed in that watch.

Black Peace:Huh? Really, that watch?

Anthony de Haas:It's on the floor above, so let's go see it later.

We are working on many development projects at the same time, with 16 movements currently under development.

Black Peace:Huh? Really? That's amazing.

Anthony de Haas:Yes, but the development takes five, six, seven years, and each movement takes time. When we were developing the Zeitwerk, we had the idea for the Lange 31, which had to address the energy issue, the power reserve extension issue, and the security issue. Again, the remontoire of the pendulum clock was the inspiration for that.

However, the Zeitwerk is a completely different beast from the Lange 31. It's a powerhouse that requires torque. The Lange 31 is a marathon runner, and from there, the Richard Lange with its jumping seconds hand was born. The Lange 31 and the Richard Lange Perpetual Calendar "Terraluna" jumped every 10 seconds, but what would happen if it jumped every second? Well, that's how the jumping seconds hand was born. What a convenient story.

That's convenient. So you can't reset it to zero? But that's not a problem for me. My problem is the jumping seconds, not the zero reset. But if you can reset it to zero, it's definitely interesting at least. So I think I've learned a lot at every stage.

At the same time, developing Jumping Seconds has given me the opportunity to meet many people. I've worked in many different cultures, and that experience has been extremely helpful. Among my 55 subordinates, many are highly creative and sensitive. To support them, I sometimes feel like I'm a psychologist or motivator. It can be tough and challenging at times, but this work is always done with respect. And, above all, it's fun. Humans are always emotional, and we don't want employees to burn out, so we have to take good care of them. Therefore, managers must take responsibility, and of course, I'm responsible for managing the workload of the development team. If my subordinates' eyes are constantly red, it's probably because I'm not good at judging the workload. That's my fault, not theirs. That's my philosophy, and I've learned it over the years.

To whom will you pass on your passion, knowledge and experience?

Black Peace:The timing of the next question is also perfect: Is there someone you could call "De Haz Jr.", someone who will inherit all of your passion, knowledge and experience?

Anthony de Haas:I'm 57 years old, so I'm still too young to leave this place (laughs). So I'm not sure yet, but I think there are already a few. When I arrived here 20 years ago, I wasn't as experienced as I am now. So, I don't expect too much experience from those who follow me. It's a topic that I sometimes find myself pondering.

I would like to take the time to guide these people so that they can grow and develop further. However, on the other hand, it may not be good for my successor to have the same personality as Anthony de Haas. There are too many Anthony de Haas in the world (laughs). The person who takes on the role I have taken on after me will be a different person with a different personality.

What's important to me is that I follow a philosophy similar to that of Alan D. Blumlein, the inventor of stereophony, and what I do is no different from what he did, although I don't think every day, "What would Mr. Blumlein have done?" (laughs).

I think it's important for a company like A. Lange & Söhne to foster successors. That's our philosophy, after all. I think we need to continue to provide the reassurance that if something happens to a watch, we'll always have some kind of care. If your child owns an A. Lange & Söhne watch 20 years from now and needs repair or maintenance, the brand will always be there to help. And even then, we'll probably be producing around 5000 watches a year, not 1, and we'll have accumulated even more know-how. Over the past few years, we've mastered the techniques of minute repeaters and hand-engraving enamel dials. These areas led to the development of the "Lumen" series, and we'll continue to acquire these skills. I think this "continuity" is very important.

The challenge is interesting and fun

Black Peace:I've heard that it took nine years to create the first chiming watch (minute repeater), and that at the time the technology was only available in Switzerland. So what was the biggest obstacle to developing this mechanism in Germany?

Anthony de Haas:It was about convincing watchmakers that, "You can do this!" They were like, "Oh, no, you can't do that," and so on. Training programs? No, that's not the problem. It was a challenge. Obviously, there was a lot to learn. But it was trial and error, and it was interesting and fun, and sometimes you have to convince people.

Black Peace:By the way, the trend in case sizes is once again shifting from large to smaller diameters. Do you have any plans to make smaller watches, such as a 35-36mm Saxonia?

Anthony de Haas:We are not aware of such trends and do not follow them. Of course, we cannot compete with brands like Piaget in terms of thinness, but the Saxonia Thin is called the "Saxonia Thin" because it is the thinnest brand watch. However, because Lange watches use gold chatons, they are 0.4mm thinner than Swiss watches (laughs).

Black Peace:It's already thin enough for a watch made using classical techniques (laughs).

Anthony de Haas:Well, actually, I do keep an eye on what's going on in the world, so it might be a bit of a stretch to say I'm unaware of trends.

Black Peace:So, will there be a revival of "Cabaret"?

Anthony de Haas:With the exception of the Cartier Tank and Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso, rectangular watches are a niche product. Therefore, they will likely remain an option for future new products, but unfortunately, there are currently no plans to revive the Cabaret. Other models, such as tourbillons, are also on the list of potential new models.

The Cabaret is indeed one of the most beautiful rectangular watches, but when I was in London, we were releasing 10 new watches a year, and I thought it didn't make sense to have so much inventory. I knew I had many other ideas, but I decided to put it aside for now.

Final Question

Kurono Peace:Now, I have one last question. I missed out on the limited edition "XXXXXXXX", is there any way I can buy it?

Anthony de Haas:You'll have to ask Kaori (Yamazaki, president of Japan) or Ramsey, our sales director, about that (laughs). I have an easy time because I'm not involved in the complicated stuff like allocation. The competition is so fierce, after all. In the worst cases, people will ask for this serial number or that serial number (laughs).

Black Peace:I only buy watches that I really love, so please do something about it (laughs).

Anthony de Haas:So, please tell Ramsay about it! (laughs)

Black Peace:Yes (laughs). That's all the questions for now. Thank you for the fun conversation.

Anthony de Haas:Thank you very much. Let's take a photo together.

Black Peace:Yes, please!

Selector Profile

Black Peace

A watch enthusiast with a collection of over 700 watches, ranging from a 1000 yen Casio, a 1970s digital watch, to a Patek Philippe minute repeater worth over 100 million yen. He produces Chrono Theory, which handles independent watch brands, and has been featured twice in the New York Times. He is one of Japan's leading watch collectors.
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